Bishop William Marcus Pollard

Bishop William Pollard Transcript
Interview by Mike Lions, Larry Kent, and Sonja
Time: 62:08
Also Present: Arlie Sommer

0:02:55.0

WILLIAM POLLARD: Good morning my name is Bishop M. Pollard, native Oregonian grow up in what is now called the Eliot neighborhood, but we called it the Albina neighborhood because Eliot was not built. I grew up on Graham St. between Rodney and Williams. Born 1949 had 8 brothers and sisters; we all attended Eliot as a grade school. I attended the first class, my kindergarten class when they opened up the school, that first year. I remember a lot about this neighborhood uh right across from the street from Port City is the place is the place we called Ann Farmer Bakery and we could go by in the morning and they would give us hot doughnuts, they would have them sitting outside.  If they didn't give you could just pick one up and walk onto school. 

0:04:05.0

POLLARD: I remember Dr. Marshall Upthanks office was across the street. Then you had Chuck's Market at the corner of Russell you had Citizen's lunch and the drugstore was across the street next to the drugstore was a nightclub, Paul's Paradise, then you had Mr. Slaughters pool hall then you had Lou’s man shop, and on this side you had Louie's Chineses Rest, you had Mr. Boston’s then you had the TV repair shop then on the corner you had Bishop JC Foster who had the barbershop and up the street you had Dawson Park you also had one of the famous barbeque places at that time, everybody came and got there bbq. You had immaculate heart and a lot of children went to that Parochial school there. It was a thriving neighborhood, the streetcar ran up the middle of Williams all the way up to about Freemont but you could catch it going down Vancouver for a nickel and ride it all the way downtown. And they had the major shopping center Crest, Newberry's, JK Gills, Meyer & Franks, Litman and I remember all the women used to love to shop at Zukas that was a women’s store.

0:05:40.0

POLLARD: And so that’s what I remember about growing up in the neighborhood. It was a neighborhood where all the families knew each other, if you stayed on top of the hill which would be on this side of Russell they called you a hill toppers if you stayed below the hill they called you bottom boys and of course they were separated behind the Eliot school was the old dumps where they did all the garbage dumps so we called it the dumps. Where the coliseum used to be down on Ross St. quite a few people lived down there before had to move out we called that snake country cause all the kids would go catch snakes and frogs down by the river for our projects. And then of course the coliseum got put in and they moved everyone on up a little farther.

LIONS: I have a question I mean was it the snakes? I know what a snake is but you mean were the coliseum was built, they they they called it the snake?

POLLARD: There wasn’t anything down there; there was a lot of people who lived along the river.

LIONS: Right.

POLLARD: Uh the Willamette River down on Ross St. Down there.

LIONS: Right. 

POLLARD: So there was a lot of weeds and different things going down to the river because it was thriving with garden snakes and those were the only snakes, frogs we would catch pigeons, frogs walk out onto the trestles where they would get the grain and the baby squabs.

LIONS: They called this the top and the bottom?

POLLARD: Right, because it was below the hill.

LIONS: Okay I got it, all right [inaudible].

0:07:45.0

POLLARD: I retired as a manager supervisor for a high-tech company might of heard of it Volker silltronics, one of the major electronics company producing wafers all the way out on front street they had two labs. I got in with that company when the Germans came here to build they sent me to school and I worked for them for thirty years and retired in 2009 and now I pastor full time on jubille tabernacle I am a Bishop for full gospel. And so I do that now I do that full time.

LIONS: Now, where’s this gospel at?

POLLARD: The church is located on Killingsworth and Moore St. right across from the Morre St. Salvation Army.

LIONS: That is cool, my biggest question I want to ask you. What high school did you go to? 

0:08:48.0

POLLARD: Went to the school of the Champions, Jefferson High School of course from ’50s, ‘60s and ‘70s we won all of the championships. That was the school of the champions. I was pretty much known for track, when I went to Eliot grade school we won all the basketball, Pop Warner football, track, and Jr. Olympics, then in high school so that’s how they got the name.

LIONS: I’m sorry I like Jefferson but I am a Grant high school boy. I went to Grant and that’s why I ask the question, what high school you went to?

POLLARD: That was our competition, Grant and Jefferson back in the day.  Some of the things I remember about the people about the people who stayed down in this neighborhood. I was just talking to this girl, the Monsons, they grew up around the corner of the fights, the worns, you go down the hill Jackie, Lousie the Saunders, the just trying to remember all the families they did have the one barber shop that is still there now, probably one of the oldest Afro-American businesses and you don’t know if you have talked with Deans barbershop, Gloria and then they are still this about the 3rd or 4th generation still running this beauty and barber shop. Right there on uh not Sacramento but its right round the corner right off of Martin Luther King was the oldest black business that has been continuous.

LIONS: When you were born in 1949 did you ever-meet Martin Luther King

POLLARD: I was at the King rally when he came through here. I did meet John F. Kennedy at Janzen beach in 1963.  I came in Second in the NW marble championship, he was campaigning at Janzen beach so I got a chance to shake hands and take pictures with John F. Kennedy.

LIONS: Man you been around for a long time?

POLLARD: 62 years.

LIONS: I am just starting I’m 53 catching up with you.

POLLARD: Lucky.

0:12:05.0

LIONS: That’s cool, did you go to Washington DC when they had the big rally with him?

POLLARD: No I did not go at that time.  I was probably just a teenager going to high school so I never did go.  I participated in activities that they had locally but never during my youth age did I go.  I ended up in California and went to the Job Corp. for a few years.  So I was in the Job Corp. with a friend George Foreman, big George.

LIONS: Oh George Foreman?

POLLARD: Yeah we were in Pleasington together, so I knew big George. But you know since I have been grown and had a number of trips get to Washington DC and just see the memorials we had a family reunion in Washington DC last year.  I have sister that stays there. But one of the big events that they do have in the Eliot neighborhood and I don’t know how you guys missed it, is the Gathering. Have you heard of the Gathering?

0:13:10.0

LIONS: No.

POLLARD: The Gathering is where everybody who grew up in this neighborhood the last weekend in August they have it Dawson Park and Emmanuel Hospital gives them space and stuff. So people come from across all across the United States and they come to the Gathering. So we have the Gathering every year last weekend in August. And so people that older and their kids come from everywhere, that is one of the ways we stay in contact with everybody and that been going on al together at least 30 years, know that I’ve been going probably longer.

LIONS: Long time.

POLLARD: You have to have someway to keep bonding, one of the ways that grew up then was bonded because it was the old ways you had somebody down the street knew your family, you was doing something they would straighten you out then you got home you got straightened out. Families were more relationalship you knew neighbors and you knew your neighbors kids so I still have kids that I grew up with are still my friends for far as I can remember.

LIONS: Who were your friends you grew up with? 

0:14:44.0

POLLARD: Of course my next-door neighbors on Grimm St. were the Johnsons.  It was 7 Johnsons and they were all older than me. So they were Albert Johnson was like my big brother I remembering him walking me to kindergarten. Across the street was George and Larry the Fitts family and George became one of the big time DJs here.  An then next door to him was the Strauders, Ms. Strauder.  They still own that house today and the Davidson’s right next to them and then the Goldens, Tommy Carter, Roy Washington, Jerome Cox.  They had the funeral home on Williams Ave. and then it moved to Rodney, so he was a friend of mine, the triplets.  The Stadamires, they lived on the corner, Wily, Charlie, and Donald. The Warrens, Donald, Ronald, Kennith Warren they all lived around the corner [inaudible]. We all played sports together.  Danny Bell, you might of met Danny Bell.

LIONS: How about Damon Stoudamire?

POLLARD: Damon?  His father, me and his father were good friends.  Damon wasn’t born yet but they stayed on the corner Miss Wanda, that’s what we called his grandmother. So we spent a lot of time right cross the street from school, so we would get out of school run to miss Wanda’s house and eat and run to football practice. Yeah I think, matter of fact Donald still stays in that same house right across the street, a Stoudamire still stays in that house. So it was a lot of friends, I had a lot that went to Grant and eventhough they went to Grant we were still friends. Tony Bates, Wesley Austin, Deni, Wayne-the Louis’ Wayne Louis. 

LIONS: Damon Stoudamire went to Grant.

POLLARD: I don't know.  See it was like I said.  I knew his father, I said that we were good friends. Were still good friends.  I thought Damon went to Madison or something.  I don’t know.

LIONS: No, Damon went to Grant because his picture is in Grant high school.  Why would he went-he graduated when I went to Grant and he was one of the best ball players at Grant. Then they played Jefferson, I remember that first game we played Jefferson you guys beat us bad. By 30 points that game. I said man we gotta stop these guys.  And the last game of season we played you guys and beat you guys by 5, we paid you guys back. But it was a good game.  It was great cause Jefferson was, us and Jefferson was a big rival team back in them days. Even football I remember we always played Jefferson and they always beat us but we would pay them back in the playoffs, knocked them out of playoffs and stuff.  [Inaudible] but they’re a good team.  I have a friend that went to there, went to Jefferson. 

0:18:06.0

POLLARD: This was a good neighborhood to grow up in, always when I come through always reflecting on the times past and the good things I really think it was a good upbringing in this neighborhood. People were tight, families were tight of course this was in the 50s people didn’t have the lavish lifestyles they have now so most people walked very few people had automobiles. Rode city transportation, you could go into Chuck’s Market and say Mama said she wants this this and this and says she will pay next week, they would give you what you want and that’s how it went.

LIONS: Do you know a guy named Curly?

[tangent about Curly]

LARRY KENT: I lived across from Williams mean Emanuel big apartments used to be called [inaudible]. I lived there for 6 years they changed the name though.

POLLARD: Did you know before they built that Emanuel Apt home there it was a funeral home, Cox funeral home. Cox funeral home and Charlene beauty shop and across the street there was the famous bbq place called Scotty's, that was in the 50s. You were not born then.

KENT: I was born in the 60s, I was three years old when you meet what’s his name? Kenny? What month did you meet him?

POLLARD: October I think.

KENT: I was born in 1960.

POLLARD: They had McKinley’s temple on Vancouver where Emanuel Hospital is now was McKinney’s was one of the first church of God in Christ, it was right there I remember that. Then you come down the street out Williams stay there and the Jackson stayed there because all those were houses and they brought them out, kind of forced them out with the law of Eminent domain, we know how that works. uh but yeah that was thriving, like I said the bakery, the doctor office, the restaurant, the clothe store, TV repairman, too many people didn’t have TVs more had radio-

LIONS: Back in them days nobody had TVs.

POLLARD: Started getting TVs in 1958, I stayed on Graham between Rodney and Williams, we had matter of fact a two-story home, all the homes were big. So we had a like a two story home with probably with 7 to 8 bedrooms with only one bathroom upstairs and one downstairs.

LIONS: [Inaudible] its different now [inaudible] they shut that down but they made a restaurant next to it now. I mean ever since, been here a long time, I mean mean mean its changed a lot.

POLLARD: Cause across from that you remember if you was here, Rudy’s pool hall and Cleo's restaurant, good food. They still have on Lou's Tropicana restaurant has probably been there for at least 50 years. Only Little restaurant right there across from the Pizza place. She probably could tell you a lot more about Lou's. Cathy's market the store has been there but Cathy's used to be down here on Williams between Russell and Knot, and of course there was Knot St., Knot St. was 24:05 Eliot school this was there before I went. Then they built Eliot school and changed the name back to Knot St. Community center then they changed it to Matt Dishman who was a police officer. Went to school with his son. Trying to say went to Eliot in 55, 56 in the 50s. In the 60s starting changing and building a new community center
I stayed in back there, we would go to the Davis' yard climb up the apple tree jump onto the roof and go into the basketball court because they didn’t allow us little boys after a certain time to come in and play basketball, but we wanted to play night bball so we would climb in through the windows and the big boys would let us come in and play.

LIONS: Did you get caught?

POLLARD: They had a lot of good fighters, Olympians come out of Matt Dishman center they had Ray Lampkin JR cross, uhm, Johnny Howard, uhm, Thad Spencer who was probably number 2 in the world next to Muhammad ALi SO the y had a lot of boxing it was World famous for the boxers produced out of Matt Dishman Center.

0:25:25.0

SOMMER: Did you grow up wanting to be a Boxer then?

POLLARD: No I was always good at bball, football, and track. Didn’t like nobody hitting on me. Everybody boxed.

LIONS: Oh okay if you played football you hitting somebody.

POLLARD: That was kind of different, everybody boxed, you went to there and at least you knew the fundamentals cause if you didn’t somebody was going to try you. you know, fighting wasn’t like they have today. It was put on some gloves, lets go to Knott St. and put on some gloves. Chuck would let you get in the ring and Clyde Quisenberry were long time people. Then somebody else in this neighborhood sure you heard the name?

0:27:00.0

POLLARD: Ms Collins, Grace Collins community center, everybody went there to play bball and get cookies she was on Russell btw MLK and Rodney. She came here form Sweet Home Oregon that was her mission, she started the daycare off of Rodney right off of Knottt, then her Mother bought that building and it became famous, everybody went to Miss Collins Community Center.

LIONS: Famous cookies.

POLLARD: Matter of fact I am on the board of Miss Collins foundation because we ended up with a few hundred thousand dollars so now we are giving scholarships out, giving three out every year for the legacy of Miss Collins for young people who want to work with young people. If you know anybody let me know and Ill get you an application. Like I said All of those businesses, you had the drug store, you had Paul's Paradise, Slaughter's Pool Hall, Louse man shop, Cathy's Store, Scotty's BBq, you had Mr. Lees Chinese’s restaurant, you had Boston’s clothing store, you had the TV repair shop and the cleaner and you Mr. Foster's barber shop. So all those right there on Russell between Williams and Vancouver all those were taken down and the ones that wasn’t was because all of the people demographics shift. Then you had you didn’t have the business to support them. 30:00 The bakery went out of business, because people started moving up then the Wonder Bread bakery was up on Freemont so people moved everyone up down on the hill because down there you had Williams market and another cleaner. I didn’t go down there too much because I had to fight my way back out. All of those when they moved everybody up and shifted the demographic those business went out. Yeah I remember a friend his parents fought a long time they was on the corner of Graham and Vancouver. See like I stayed don this so we weren’t affected but everything on this side was affected.

SOMMER: So you left?

POLLARD: Matter of fact I sold the property I grew up in, in the 90s. My mother just said they had some other properties, we sold that property in the 90s. My next-door neighborhood just sold theirs in the 2000s because their mother passed. The Davis still stay there, miss Alder still toys there. So on this side was not as affected, across Williams everybody moved.

LIONS: [inaudible] came to Oregon in 1987, when i first came to Portland MLK used to be Union ave inaudible.

POLLARD: I was on Union Ave quite a bit, got my haircut on MLK on Union and Freemont next door to him was DC Collins had the pool hall next door to them the Tavern, there was the Scotts had the Tavern. Built the first McDonald’s on the corner of Union and Freemont. It was the first in Oregon in the 60s. Irvington was a park where Grant and Jefferson people both came to hang out, they could have a little confrontation some time. They would end up playing scrimmage football, having track races, playing bball. The most drugs was probably Marijuana or some pills.

LIONS: [Inaudible] What year you talking about.

POLLARD: ‘84, ‘85 , I can’t uh…’80, ’85…I was raising a family, working, yeah so I didn’t go to clubs or anything like that. One of the things I did do, I participated in and did a lot of funerals for the young people that were getting killed. We attended the church Emanuel Temple that we started the Portland Youth Redirection, for a number of years we got millions of dollars just for gang counseling programs, woman programs. I was oh 2 years ago when somebody got killed in the church I was the pastor that was doing that service. It was the first time somebody had got killed in a church, in the nation, inside the church. I could not I had nightmares for a longtime.

0:35:45.0

LIONS: Was that outside the church?

POLLARD: It was inside, we were showing the viewing the remains and uh they got in a fight and somebody handed one boy a gun and they shot him.

LIONS: [inaudible] Somebody drove by and started shooting.

POLLARD: That is kind of a new phenomenon in the late 80s and 90s. I was in my 40s.

LIONS: In the late 80s and 90s when the gang members came in. How did they become gang members that’s what I am trying too find out.

POLLARD: I could not tell you that, what side of the neighborhood you was raised on and who you associated, just like all gangs. Cause its always been some type of gangs in all parts of our society, its the activities they participate in. How one becomes that-

LIONS: If you was a gang leader, okay, and if I joined your gang, what part of Portland do they hang out in. Everuybody in NE Portland 17th St. or 15th belongs to the Crips and 18 and 19th belongs to to the bloods can you explain that.

POLLARD: I couldn’t tell you, you gotta go ask them yourself.

LIONS: You know Portland, I’m asking you.

POLLARD: I know like I said, I was the Champlain at mcclearen, so I know all of the young people that were getting in trouble.

LIONS: Did you have any gang members in your church.

POLLARD: Sure sure, because kids can be affiliated with gangs, you have levels, you have wannabes, hanger-on’s, and you have hardcore. When you deal with em, people can just for hanging around can say they are a gang member, but they don’t have the attitude. Only the hardcore do.

LIONS: If I was on 18th St. and painted their turf, graffiti, that’s your turf that’s what they call it.

POLLARD: You know more than I do.

LIONS: Because my friend is an ex gang member, because he got tired to listening what their doing. When he got got out I was happy. But still I hear on the news about drive by shooting. Whats so big deal with drive by shooting, just get them in once place, if they want to fight bring them to iron mikes and let them fight.

SOMMER: So you know so kids very personally, do you have stories about kids getting out of the gangs and succeeding?

0:40:00.0

POLLARD: Sure, sure trying to think of the kids name who is a counselor now, got out of the gangs, counseled another young man Robert Richardson really worked with them I would mainly go in and do the service and counseling. He worked with them in on a one to one to one basis and he had a number of successes getting them into college. One of the things is as you mature and grow older you realize you gotta change your lifestyle and then they are looking for a way out, and some opportunities. Its like its hard to find gang members in their 30s, its usually 15, 26 when they start getting older they are in the penitentiary or they realize I gotta grow up, so its a phenomenon of young people getting caught up in a lot of deviant behavior.

LIONS: I was watching a show on tv called gang members on TV, ill tell you 15 16 17 year old kids 18 19 when they get in their 20s they go to prison. This one guy was there for 45 years in the gang like 54 years old, in prison for murder rape shooting robbing. Im looking why would a guy for 54 years old rob and kill people. I am 53 am I gonna wake up tomorrow morning and say I am goona shoot somebody. NO if someone gets in my face Im gonna grab a bbal and say meet me on the court.

POLLARD: But you realize that’s only a small percentage of the youth that’s in gangs, the news keeps that going cause it sells news. Im more concerned with the corporate gangs or the political gangs that are affecting. Im more concerned them that are that are doing little you know little things that are affecting the whole community.

0:43:00.0

LIONS: Mike Lions I work here at Port City, I love working here. Nice to meet you, you’re a nice guy, but one thing you went to Jefferson and I went to Grant so we rivals. Ill meet you at the court and we will we see who is number one

LIONS: My name is Larry, and I came to Oregon in 1987, I lived in Sacramento but it sucked. I hated it, it sucked.  But Oregon is a lot better.  I lived here for 26 years.

SOMMER: I was hoping that Rev. Pollard, I know we have couple more minutes, I was hoping you could talk about your parents when you were growing up.

POLLARD: My mother was a stay at home mom. My father owned a card room, right up the street in the pool hall. Which was legal at that time.

SOMMER: Where was the card room?

POLLARD: Right here and Russell and Williams, this was late 50s early 60s. He owned property all down here on Ross. I can remember selling property. They told me they were buying houses for 2 or 3 thousand dollars and selling them for 30 thousand that was astronomical. I bought my first house for 69 thousand and sold it for 269,000. I remember them saying they were playing like 25 dollars a month. I left home at a young age and 4 or 5 of us were renting a house and we were paying 9 dollars a month. Gas, even people smoking, cigarettes were like 15 cents a pack. Most people worked on the Railroad, Esco, or they were Entrepreneurs. Lot of the woman did maid work, my mother came here babysitting for a General in the army. He came here to oversee something they were doing at the shipyard. And when they were leaving she decided to stay because she met my father. My mother was originally from Mississippi. Most people came during the Great Migration to work for Kaiser out at Vanport and Guills Lake way out in North Portland. Kaiser built homes and it was pretty well integrated and of course they had the Vanport flood and that’s how they moved to NE Portland cause nobody wanted to live down by the river. That’s the history my mother and them tell me, that’s how the dispersment happened.

LIONS: [inaudible]

POLLARD: No I didn’t work over there. My brother works at Chuck's Market. Everybody knew Chuck, he and my father were close because of gambling. My pop was popular because my pop and the Corn brothers owned a lot of the gambling places. At night it was all about Gambling. A few people worked at the bakery, I was to young at the time, plus I didn’t really like to work at that time. In the summer everybody went to the berry and bean field. Did anybody tell you about Aldeman's Bean field. They had busses and come pick people up to work from here, Vancouver, McMinnville it wasn’t a racial thing just picked up the youth. They had all these forms of beans and Strawberries. That’s how you made your summer money for the summer and for school clothes, probably started about 7 or 8. Berries were hard work but beans you could make 10 dollars in a day. They paid once a week in a check, so 10 dollars was a lot of money, could get a nice pair tennis shoes and jeans and maybe even a shirt for 10 dollars. Did that every summer till I was 14 and decided I wasn’t picking no more.

LIONS: What was your next job?

POLLARD: My daddy was a gambler, so I knew the gambling trade. Shot pool pretty good, gambled the dice and cards. You grow getting into a lot of activities that you knew better, I was taught right form wrong and got in a bit a trouble. Matter of fact spent some time in reform in school, spent some time in Oregon State Correctional Inst., spent some time OSP my number was 37005 so I spent some years in penitentiaries. I tell people now that was one of the reasons I could go talk to young people. I was heavy into criminal activity in the NW period, then knew I had to change my life and went to college and giving my life to Christ. It changed everything just went to work and raised a family.

POLLARD: Say you know Mark that I get people calling all the time, I can’t believe your preaching especially like 20 years ago. People couldn’t believe it, they’d drive up just to see. Shows that anything is possible.

SOMMER: What advice would you give young people today?

POLLARD: The lesson I learned is that you can do and obey and don’t have to go through a lot of drama or you can learn life the hard way. The sad thing is that I got out and changed and was able to be a success but I had a lot of friends that didn't. I have one regret about my whole life that I didn’t change sooner, I could avoided that if I just would have listened. I was blessed that I had opportunities that came my way and I recognized them. They had a program called SeedEm and when I got out the Penitentiary had a friend that got me involved. They were giving jobs for a new high-tech company. When I got to the job I decided two things, I was going do what i was told and be there on time because the Germans liked that. So that in 1980 minimum wage was 350 I started at 650 and within 6months they put me on a salary for 25,000 a year. That was phenomenal at the time, no body was making that type of money. Then they sent me back to college so I could know the high tech information. Now I am giving back, run a Women's recovery program, sent on the board of a few Community things, Miracles Club. So you give back when you can, you can straighten your life up but the opportunities don’t always come and you might not achieve your God given potential because you missed those opportunities. I was just favored enough that when I was 26 years old had some opportunities and knew a lot of people Black, White, Hispanic, and Asian and they gave me some opportunities.